Comments on: A vision of Ireland at the crossroads?

By: Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:16:59 +0000

As you say, there can no turning back the clock. There was and never will be “an ideal Ireland”. I don’t think collective self-esteem is the problem, rather a deep and growing cynicism about what politics and politicians can do in this country. People may feel that the political system has failed to deliver, despite an election nothing much has changed. The technocrats are in charge. Emigration of many of the college graduates (while beneficial for them on a personal level, one hopes) adds to the cynicism about what the state can achieve. Nobody, I think, takes much notice of what our (ceremonial) President says. If he continues like this, it could be a long 6 years.
Like the blog.

By: Vince

Vince — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 18:05:16 +0000

Oh, just so I’m clear. It would be my inclination to charge all involved with this woman’s medical care if not with murder then with negligent homicide.

By: Vince

Vince — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 18:02:34 +0000

Yes, this case is unclear.

And there is no absolute ban in place here. What we don’t have is clear direction from the legislature. Something I think cannot ever occur since it cannot impinge on the Rights of the Citizen. The only way this ‘can’ happen is on a case by case like this one. None would have carried this before the courts and if they did the SC ruling would instantly come into play.
For all the ill informed hoo-haa written about Irish attitude to abortion no one has realised that Roe in the States hasn’t been challenged nor will it be.
Our Supreme Court made a ruling on Citizen Rights back in the 90s, that no one has thought about it since is no ones fault but the idiots on high horses.

By: Anna Notaro

Anna Notaro — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:37:13 +0000

you mean the circumstances of this particular case are unclear? What is clear enough is that a European court ruling in 2010 declared the absolute ban on abortion to be a breach of women’s human rights.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11342247
In this context, only last September a medical symposium in Dublin heard evidence that “abortion is not medically necessary to save the life of a mother.”
http://www.zenit.org/rssenglish-35522
To paraphrase from one of the comments above, it seems to me that if Ireland sticks to some of such past *values* it will only end up with a bunch of ashes.

By: Vince

Vince — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:20:29 +0000

Sorry Anne, the info so far is unclear.

By: Anna Notaro

Anna Notaro — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 16:06:56 +0000

What a coincidence to write about ‘Ireland (and its ethical values) at a crossroad’, only a few days before a woman dies having been denied a medical termination and allegedly told: “This is a Catholic country” !
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-abortion-law-woman-death?CMP=twt_gu
I really, really hope that, as it has been the case in other contexts, an individual tragedy like this one provokes a national debate that changes matters.

By: Al

Al — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:22:16 +0000

Hi, I was avoiding commenting, but twas still in my mind, so I will comment although everyone has moved on.

There is a danger in getting distracted about future or past visions when it may be more important to recognise the “less than optimal” performance nationaly both in terms of perpetuity and in terms of our recent massive failing.
We have a difficulty pursuing our national interest or understanding the responsibilities arsing from this obligation, but we are much more comfortable doning the jersey of our particular parish and battling for a slice of the national pie, rather than seeking union to grow said pie.
This factor also has filtered into determining responsibility for the recent national disaster where everyone has their scapegoat.

Lets put the vision thing on hold for the moment
Twas left in the mind too long to be anything other than a rant!

By: James Fryar

James Fryar — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:30:21 +0000

I agree. We were successful in some regards. But then why does my friend not have broadband access? Why does he live in an estate so far from train stations that he has to drive along the increasingly congested roads? Why did we plan a children’s hospital for years, only to suddenly find out it was too high? Why did we build an M50, close parts of it, and have to expand the lanes? Why did we plan a metro, do nothing about it, and then suddenly pull the project? Why did we build a national aquatic centre and watch no one use it? Why did we have primary schools with leaky roofs and no heating when third-level colleges were attempting to get 50 metre pools? What the Celtic Tiger taught us was that our political classes had no foresight, no ability to plan beyond their term in office, and that old-fashioned gumption was exactly that – old fashioned. We had our cake, didn’t eat it, and then watched it slowly being picked away by the crows. And that, for me, is the painful part. I wasn’t in a position to build up a debt, or buy a house (let alone a second one) or even a car while I lived off toasted ham and cheese sandwiches and Guinness on my postgrad stipend. I feel no responsibility for the crash, no intention of renouncing material possessions, no longing for rural frugality. What I want is answers. Answers to why our political parties failed to see that if you put your economic eggs in one basket (property development) they’ll crack at some stage, and why in our hi-tech economy, people still have dodgy internet connections through a creaking mobile 3G network.

By: universitydiary

universitydiary — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 01:19:34 +0000

Actually, it would be more accurate to say that the Celtic Tiger lasted until 2004. It was only from then that construction and domestic consumption outstripped exports.

But even then, Ireland remained phenomenally successful in attracting inward investment, and critically became increasingly a magnet for high value R&D. It was never as one-dimensional story as you suggest.

By: OMF

OMF — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 00:09:15 +0000

The Celtic Tiger was a brief period from ~1990 to 1999 when Ireland had a genuine economic boom. The period from 1999 to 2012 was and continues to be a massive state-wide ponzi scheme.

I don’t want to return to the past. And I don’t want to be stuck in the present. I want to move on to a brighter future.

And that future begins by getting all the people who wrecked Ireland over the last 20 years, taking them out to a back alley, and ritually sacrificing them in three different ways to the old pagan gods. Hows that for revisiting history?