<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: On the record?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 09:13:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: universitydiary</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[universitydiary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In fairness, I don&#039;t think Duncan controls any university...

I agree that everyone in the classroom has rights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fairness, I don&#8217;t think Duncan controls any university&#8230;</p>
<p>I agree that everyone in the classroom has rights.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: no-name</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[no-name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I’m sorry but that is a completely ridiculous argument.&quot;

I would not want to be a student in a university controlled by individuals who would deny as ridiculous the argument that everyone in the classroom has natural rights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m sorry but that is a completely ridiculous argument.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would not want to be a student in a university controlled by individuals who would deny as ridiculous the argument that everyone in the classroom has natural rights.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: duncanmaciver</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21920</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[duncanmaciver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Anna I take your point, they are separate issues. They are directly related though - recording of lectures is going to happen whether lecturers plan for it or not, so does it not make sense for institutions to define policy on this, and to take control of how the recordings are managed? 
This removes the need for students to take their own recordings, gives control back to the lecturer &amp; institution, and ultimately removes the crux of the issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anna I take your point, they are separate issues. They are directly related though &#8211; recording of lectures is going to happen whether lecturers plan for it or not, so does it not make sense for institutions to define policy on this, and to take control of how the recordings are managed?<br />
This removes the need for students to take their own recordings, gives control back to the lecturer &amp; institution, and ultimately removes the crux of the issue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anna Notaro</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21919</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anna Notaro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Duncan, I am all for developing innovative and exciting courses which make the most of new technologies, however I have the impression that your comment is conflating two different issues: the original question was whether it is acceptable for students, without first seeking permission, to record lectures or classes (in which case I still maintain issues of trust and courtesy, among others, come into play) and the issue of whether or not the recordings of classes should become accepted practice due to its pedagogical merits. In the latter case, the problems with trust and secrecy do not stand of course as the lecturer herself has &#039;embraced&#039; as you say the  new learning tool. Most importantly, a lecture which is &#039;meant&#039; to be audio-visually recorded would be prepared/conceived in a different manner, in that the lecturer has an active role in exploiting the pedagogical possibilities offered by the new tool, quite a different matter if a lecture, not conceived with such possibilities in mind, is recorded in secret. This has nothing to do with being careful in what one says (which, I agree,  a lecturer should be doing anyway), ultimately neither technology nor monetary factors alone (fees, as hinted in comments above) should dictate what is best academic practice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Duncan, I am all for developing innovative and exciting courses which make the most of new technologies, however I have the impression that your comment is conflating two different issues: the original question was whether it is acceptable for students, without first seeking permission, to record lectures or classes (in which case I still maintain issues of trust and courtesy, among others, come into play) and the issue of whether or not the recordings of classes should become accepted practice due to its pedagogical merits. In the latter case, the problems with trust and secrecy do not stand of course as the lecturer herself has &#8216;embraced&#8217; as you say the  new learning tool. Most importantly, a lecture which is &#8216;meant&#8217; to be audio-visually recorded would be prepared/conceived in a different manner, in that the lecturer has an active role in exploiting the pedagogical possibilities offered by the new tool, quite a different matter if a lecture, not conceived with such possibilities in mind, is recorded in secret. This has nothing to do with being careful in what one says (which, I agree,  a lecturer should be doing anyway), ultimately neither technology nor monetary factors alone (fees, as hinted in comments above) should dictate what is best academic practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: duncanmaciver</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[duncanmaciver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 09:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry but that is a completely ridiculous argument. Ignoring the more ridiculous elements, the base premise that someone would get more out of a lecture if any sort of relevant questions were not asked is fundamentally opposed to the whole premise of study. 

Ridiculousness aside, the base fact is that students now want the value of recording lectures to improve their knowledge retention and overall studies, as well as to assist with certain forms of learning difficulty or disability, and that is not going to change. 
This is a change in the job lecturers do that is equivalent to the change from chalk boards to visualisers to computers &amp; projectors, and like that change it is something lecturers are going to have to accept as the way they do their job. 

The best ways to manage this if staff are worried about some of the things they are saying are for the institution to control the recording (most students I&#039;m sure would prefer to be handed a good quality recording than have to do it themselves anyway), and for the lecturer to think about their content more carefully (and if there are things they wouldn&#039;t want to be misinterpreted on or taken out of context, be very careful about what they say - which they should really be doing anyway). 

It&#039;s not going away, it&#039;s only going to become more prolific, so lets embrace it as the good learning tool that it is(and most of the good lecturers I&#039;ve worked with have already done so) and use it to develop innovative and exciting courses for our students.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry but that is a completely ridiculous argument. Ignoring the more ridiculous elements, the base premise that someone would get more out of a lecture if any sort of relevant questions were not asked is fundamentally opposed to the whole premise of study. </p>
<p>Ridiculousness aside, the base fact is that students now want the value of recording lectures to improve their knowledge retention and overall studies, as well as to assist with certain forms of learning difficulty or disability, and that is not going to change.<br />
This is a change in the job lecturers do that is equivalent to the change from chalk boards to visualisers to computers &amp; projectors, and like that change it is something lecturers are going to have to accept as the way they do their job. </p>
<p>The best ways to manage this if staff are worried about some of the things they are saying are for the institution to control the recording (most students I&#8217;m sure would prefer to be handed a good quality recording than have to do it themselves anyway), and for the lecturer to think about their content more carefully (and if there are things they wouldn&#8217;t want to be misinterpreted on or taken out of context, be very careful about what they say &#8211; which they should really be doing anyway). </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not going away, it&#8217;s only going to become more prolific, so lets embrace it as the good learning tool that it is(and most of the good lecturers I&#8217;ve worked with have already done so) and use it to develop innovative and exciting courses for our students.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: no-name</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[no-name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;How on earth anyone can deny the benefits a keen student will obtain from being able to re-listen to the day’s lecture material on the journey home is beyond me.&quot;

One might equally ask how anyone on the planet could deny that everyone in the room has rights, and not just the people who want to make a electronic recordings.

A different version of the scenario could flow like this:

Leslie would get more out of the lecture if Robin did not always ask questions that Leslie does not understand.

Therefore, no one could deny that Leslie has the natural right to force Robin to drink a fatal dose of hemlock.   

(Possibly, Leslie could win an award from the Board for raising the staff/student ratio.)

If Leslie&#039;s desires take precedence over everyone else&#039;s rights, does that precedence rescind all other rights?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How on earth anyone can deny the benefits a keen student will obtain from being able to re-listen to the day’s lecture material on the journey home is beyond me.&#8221;</p>
<p>One might equally ask how anyone on the planet could deny that everyone in the room has rights, and not just the people who want to make a electronic recordings.</p>
<p>A different version of the scenario could flow like this:</p>
<p>Leslie would get more out of the lecture if Robin did not always ask questions that Leslie does not understand.</p>
<p>Therefore, no one could deny that Leslie has the natural right to force Robin to drink a fatal dose of hemlock.   </p>
<p>(Possibly, Leslie could win an award from the Board for raising the staff/student ratio.)</p>
<p>If Leslie&#8217;s desires take precedence over everyone else&#8217;s rights, does that precedence rescind all other rights?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anna Notaro</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anna Notaro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I did see the comments and I personally already allow students to make audio-recordings of my lectures, I make clear though to the class that I wish to be made aware of it. I stress  that in a teaching/learning environment *trust* is important, something that is increasingly eroded in most contexts and, I believe, still worth preserving. Actually, I would add that the role of trust is exactly what the examples described by FvP&#039;s (his own personal experience), Mr Russell&#039;s meeting and a classroom situation have all in common, it&#039;s the lack of trust, (plus the complexities of privacy as a socio-technological construct I mentioned above) which is at the heart of the matter here.
PS. Yes, I meant simplistic, (not simple), or, if you like, oversimplified, superficial, general, etc. etc.
Much could be said about the Scottish peculiarities in comparison to the students&#039; fees situation (among other matters) in the rest of the UK but I won&#039;t go into that..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I did see the comments and I personally already allow students to make audio-recordings of my lectures, I make clear though to the class that I wish to be made aware of it. I stress  that in a teaching/learning environment *trust* is important, something that is increasingly eroded in most contexts and, I believe, still worth preserving. Actually, I would add that the role of trust is exactly what the examples described by FvP&#8217;s (his own personal experience), Mr Russell&#8217;s meeting and a classroom situation have all in common, it&#8217;s the lack of trust, (plus the complexities of privacy as a socio-technological construct I mentioned above) which is at the heart of the matter here.<br />
PS. Yes, I meant simplistic, (not simple), or, if you like, oversimplified, superficial, general, etc. etc.<br />
Much could be said about the Scottish peculiarities in comparison to the students&#8217; fees situation (among other matters) in the rest of the UK but I won&#8217;t go into that..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oriflamme</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oriflamme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Simplistic? Or keeping it simple ... ? 

Like it or not, and I don&#039;t say I do, you&#039;re in a market (you are!) in which the &quot;customers&quot; (no, I don&#039;t like it either ...) are stumping up £9000 per year, more often than not to pay for third rate tuition in third rate institutions with third rate infrastructure. This can persist only for so long a the protected oligoply that is the current HE sector is allowed to exist. 

With the introduction of &quot;top up&quot; tuition fees (which are, in reality, used to subsidise, to an indefensible degree, the pursuit of RAE rankings; and any analysis I&#039;ve seen of time allocation surveys v. institutional income confirms this) the genie was released from the bottle and can never go back. A free market will inevitably follow, for no political party will protect the priveleged position of poorly performing institutions/departments/academics inherent in the status quo. 

Already, private providers, including FTSE 100 publishing companies and top US universities, are sniffing around for opportunities to turn a profit. At £9000 a pop, the opportunities a certainly there; I&#039;ve seen the sums, I&#039;ve done my own. 

Sordid? It surely is, but none of it was of my doing, quite the reverse. 

In such a world, like it or not, the customer, if not king, is at least likely to demand pedagogical value for the hefty financial charges they incur. This will include the right to exploit the benefits of new digital tools. Talk and chalk should have died years ago.

And as a PS, Anna, did you look at the comments under your Chronicle link? Overwhelmingly, the academics who responded to this were of the view, supported by experience and evidence, that the benefits of allowing recordings are well worthwhile. How on earth anyone can deny the benefits a keen student will obtain from being able to re-listen to the day&#039;s lecture material on the journey home is beyond me. That, to me, is simply the point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simplistic? Or keeping it simple &#8230; ? </p>
<p>Like it or not, and I don&#8217;t say I do, you&#8217;re in a market (you are!) in which the &#8220;customers&#8221; (no, I don&#8217;t like it either &#8230;) are stumping up £9000 per year, more often than not to pay for third rate tuition in third rate institutions with third rate infrastructure. This can persist only for so long a the protected oligoply that is the current HE sector is allowed to exist. </p>
<p>With the introduction of &#8220;top up&#8221; tuition fees (which are, in reality, used to subsidise, to an indefensible degree, the pursuit of RAE rankings; and any analysis I&#8217;ve seen of time allocation surveys v. institutional income confirms this) the genie was released from the bottle and can never go back. A free market will inevitably follow, for no political party will protect the priveleged position of poorly performing institutions/departments/academics inherent in the status quo. </p>
<p>Already, private providers, including FTSE 100 publishing companies and top US universities, are sniffing around for opportunities to turn a profit. At £9000 a pop, the opportunities a certainly there; I&#8217;ve seen the sums, I&#8217;ve done my own. </p>
<p>Sordid? It surely is, but none of it was of my doing, quite the reverse. </p>
<p>In such a world, like it or not, the customer, if not king, is at least likely to demand pedagogical value for the hefty financial charges they incur. This will include the right to exploit the benefits of new digital tools. Talk and chalk should have died years ago.</p>
<p>And as a PS, Anna, did you look at the comments under your Chronicle link? Overwhelmingly, the academics who responded to this were of the view, supported by experience and evidence, that the benefits of allowing recordings are well worthwhile. How on earth anyone can deny the benefits a keen student will obtain from being able to re-listen to the day&#8217;s lecture material on the journey home is beyond me. That, to me, is simply the point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: no-name</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21894</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[no-name]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 17:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;.... smart pens are here to stay.... with the... the smart notebooks essential to their operation.&quot;

Ironically, smart users are not essential to their operation.  By hypothesis, these devices will propel their users beyond the levels predicted by the Peter Principle, into tiers of management and control that create consequent exposure of the rest of society to great risk.  The people who have risen to their natural level of incompetence will be guided by people who are beyond incompetent.

Some in the world are happier placing professional trust in people who are able to reason in the absence of technical aids than in people who can reason only when supported by prosthetic intelligence.

&quot;If a lecturer is so uncomfortable as to reject being recorded in this way, one really has to question their career choice.&quot;

One might also suggest that individuals franchised in university boardrooms who question the career choice of an academic who wishes to preserve a right to retain control over the use of her or his own voice or image, or to protect the equal rights of students, should, in questioning that career choice, also question their own: they should ask whether the style of micro-management entailed by forcing recordings in the classrooms from the level of the boardroom is more constructively aligned with what is traditionally associated with canine obedience schools (where the classroom probably is the boardroom), or with military boot-camps (with a tremendous hierarchical distance between the two rooms, and affording as many chances for power-display as there are rank differences), since both of those sorts of schools identify demonstration of reflexive obedience as a primary measure of success, than aligned with the sound governance of university level educational and research institutions.

It seems that a category error must have been responsible for the admission of people with the title &quot;manager&quot; into the governance of any university in the first place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;. smart pens are here to stay&#8230;. with the&#8230; the smart notebooks essential to their operation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ironically, smart users are not essential to their operation.  By hypothesis, these devices will propel their users beyond the levels predicted by the Peter Principle, into tiers of management and control that create consequent exposure of the rest of society to great risk.  The people who have risen to their natural level of incompetence will be guided by people who are beyond incompetent.</p>
<p>Some in the world are happier placing professional trust in people who are able to reason in the absence of technical aids than in people who can reason only when supported by prosthetic intelligence.</p>
<p>&#8220;If a lecturer is so uncomfortable as to reject being recorded in this way, one really has to question their career choice.&#8221;</p>
<p>One might also suggest that individuals franchised in university boardrooms who question the career choice of an academic who wishes to preserve a right to retain control over the use of her or his own voice or image, or to protect the equal rights of students, should, in questioning that career choice, also question their own: they should ask whether the style of micro-management entailed by forcing recordings in the classrooms from the level of the boardroom is more constructively aligned with what is traditionally associated with canine obedience schools (where the classroom probably is the boardroom), or with military boot-camps (with a tremendous hierarchical distance between the two rooms, and affording as many chances for power-display as there are rank differences), since both of those sorts of schools identify demonstration of reflexive obedience as a primary measure of success, than aligned with the sound governance of university level educational and research institutions.</p>
<p>It seems that a category error must have been responsible for the admission of people with the title &#8220;manager&#8221; into the governance of any university in the first place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Fryar</title>
		<link>http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/on-the-record/#comment-21888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Fryar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://universitydiary.wordpress.com/?p=5427#comment-21888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I must agree with Anna. For me, the issue isn&#039;t whether or not lectures are recorded. My concern would be the purpose of recording the lecture.

I&#039;ve looked into students&#039; eyes and I&#039;ve flat-out lied to them. I&#039;ve told them stuff that simply wasn&#039;t true. I&#039;ve manipulated the truth and done so with a convincing conviction. But this is all part of lecturing ... you can&#039;t tell first years the &#039;truth&#039; about why s orbitals are spherical and p orbitals dumb-bell shaped, for example, because they won&#039;t understand it until third-year. You don&#039;t tell them the exact history of a discovery but the &#039;scientists&#039; version of history&#039; we use to simplify the mess it actually was and show the connections to their course.

If these &#039;discussions&#039; were taken out of context I, quite probably, would look a fool. But it wouldn&#039;t change the fact that I had to lie to students to achieve an end-goal]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must agree with Anna. For me, the issue isn&#8217;t whether or not lectures are recorded. My concern would be the purpose of recording the lecture.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve looked into students&#8217; eyes and I&#8217;ve flat-out lied to them. I&#8217;ve told them stuff that simply wasn&#8217;t true. I&#8217;ve manipulated the truth and done so with a convincing conviction. But this is all part of lecturing &#8230; you can&#8217;t tell first years the &#8216;truth&#8217; about why s orbitals are spherical and p orbitals dumb-bell shaped, for example, because they won&#8217;t understand it until third-year. You don&#8217;t tell them the exact history of a discovery but the &#8216;scientists&#8217; version of history&#8217; we use to simplify the mess it actually was and show the connections to their course.</p>
<p>If these &#8216;discussions&#8217; were taken out of context I, quite probably, would look a fool. But it wouldn&#8217;t change the fact that I had to lie to students to achieve an end-goal</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
